difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve
Besides, you have a greaseisel. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. R 134A is designed for the high demands of an automobile AC and cannot be used on refrigerators due to pressure differences. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. R12 systems used mineral oil, but unfortunately mineral oil doesn't dissolve in R134a. . Biggest you can fit in there is best. Its highest value is 1. If your a/c system is empty/low on refrigerant, if your system has a leak or if you need to open the system, then now is the time to decide which refrigerant you want to use. The whole trick is to sit there in those steam boxes and not perspire, it's vulgar to perspire when driving on public roads.If you want esteem, drive an MB, if you want comfort with 60*F interiors in a 125*F environment, get a Caddy. I found that in the..Maxposition on the control it will have the compressor running all the time. I just got some hi/lo side gauges so I'm going to take readings, if they are needed. It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. Debug the condensor (I am a computer nerd after all!)3. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). And no, you cannot "drain' excess oil out. At 2000rpm, windows open, highest fan, hi pressure stabilized at 225 psi, low 25psi.Ambient 81F, vent 61F. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. Therefore, the higher the factor of the chemical (compound), the greater its effect on global warming. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. (You must log in or sign up to reply here. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. It can be used applications like walk-in coolers, food and dairy display cases, domestic refrigerators, and beverage dispensers and vending machines. The AC usually does not work at all. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . This can be very very expensive. You either get a system that will function well with R1234yf or get any other type. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." The ARPA Zone/Open Membership Discussion Forums. Interestingly, theres one oil type that works perfectly with both types of refrigerants. R-134a is widely believed to be the most acceptable R12 substitute. Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. If the system was upgraded by a professional it should have an upgrade sticker. Only show this user. I know this is bad, etc, and deposits on the metal can act as insulators. Talk about what services you provide. Is the information not applicable to the old Pantera system? R12 is heavier than R134a and has smaller molecules. of coiled cap tube on VCR system with R134a. Generally the system will be initially charged with approximately 80% to 85% of the original amount of R12, using R134a. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. Be sure to test @ 1500 to 2000 engine rpm, and record the ambient temp as well. Its not that difficult but the procedures of evacuation, charging and testing should be done by a licensed a/c technician that is experienced with R134a and your particular car. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. Refrigerators generally utilize R22, R32, or 410A-based coolants as their cooling agent. This is because R134a. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. Is that reasonable?Vent airflow is good, I think. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. I'm doing one thing at a time so I know what the cause was. #19. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Answer: OK, I'll bite. is good, then I should be looking elsewhere? But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. I'll put the relay on for that. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. CR4P). I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. Just leave it alone for now. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . It's actually a reaction with chlorine in the mineral oil that may have been absorbed and leftover from the old R-12. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. Therefore, the R12 refrigerant is illegal, and emitting it is illegal. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. The difference between R12 and r134a is the BTU carrying capability. Your old hoses of course will not fit. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. Why wait for 200f on the engine coolant to start the fan? Big . A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. 1) Look Here at the available sizes of PF condensors.2) Go look at your vehicle's condensor & mounting. After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. "Howdy, Folks!" If there is a resource I should read first to save you time, let me know. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). of refrigerant insulation tape. ambulance tailgate conversion Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Expansion Valve. Though I have seen em run as cold as 12 deg F. If the thermo switch is malfunctioning. By noting the ambient temperature you can look up what the preferred high side pressure should be. 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. Thanks again. I have one can left, so maybe a plan can be made. Nick, I hear you - there maybe nothing to do here. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? What effect would it have on performance, if any? At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. Gnats & mosquitos will clog deep. I put one in my old daily driver '79 Chevy tank (r-12), and it really made a difference. I don't recall all the details, but starts off with the largest parallel flow condenser and improved fans. The non-flammables can have R22 type gas which is not compatible with most rubber hoses or they have gases that contribute to global warming. If the charge is low the compressor will cycle on/off in the max AC position. In practice this means that the car can overheat and the aux fan will stay off! But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. Yep, definately not a meat locker. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve. B. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. Miscibility with oil: R12 can be mixed with the compressor oil no matter the operating condition. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. After the initial charge the system is then tweeked : you determine the optimum amount of refrigerant to match your system by monitoring the a/c outlet vent temperature and the high side pressure as you add or remove refrigerant. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Unfortunately, the oil only mixes with the refrigerant as a liquid. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator. Components Coils, Heaters, Motors, etc. I recommend replacing the expansion valve when you do the swap. The only material difference between automotive A/C and a window A/C unit or refrigerator is that in the home application, the components are all inside the same rectangular box, but in the automotive application, the components are distributed throughout the car. The experimental values of C.O.P.H obtained with the R134a/ester charge were 20.2% evarporator, expansion valve plus flushing out the full system and replacing all the o rings. I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. Most vehicles manufactured before 1993 have the R12 A/C system. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. The global warming potential of R134a is 1430. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. R134a Refrigerant Recharge Kit with BPV31 Bullet Piercing Valve and R134a Quick Coupler, R134a/R-12/R-22 Freon Refrigerant Hose Can Tap Kit for A/C System - Easy to use. If the water valve is not closing all the way you will have re-heating of the cabin air.The cabin blower was not exactly a powerhouse - it was rated at 200w. Kommentare . asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. Since you will be using less R134a than R12 you do not want to rely on the driers site glass to determine if the system is full. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. 1) Warm Air From Vents. The good thing is that after you convert to R134 you can top off the system easily and cheaply. I have a laser temp reader, and it says the temps going into the condensor are up to 160F - coming out it is always around 110 or so. I'm going to check the condensor is way clean too. It runs between the condenser outlet, receiver/drier unit and expansion valve at the firewall. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. If you find any of these conditions you will want to liquid flush (with dedicated AC flush solution) all the lines, condensers, evaporator (remove the expansion valve) before you proceed further. R134a. Below are the major differences between R134a and R12: The chemical composition of R12 and R134a differ. Is checking the temperature of the in and out of the condensor not the easiest way to tell if it is doing a good job or not? Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. They examined the two configurations of capillary tubes i.e. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. R404a for freezing of product. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. Its cylinders are colored white. I put in a new (not reman) compressor (R4 I believe it is) in my merc 240D, new drier, new expansion valve, new o-rings, nylog. The difference really shows up on the high side. Very interesting! Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. The oil used in R12 systems is not compatible with R134a refrigerant. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Use a strong surfactant like Simple Green or Zep Citrus, and soak the fins on the condensor. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. To bless the system the technician should attach a R134a sticker somewhere in the engine compartment to note the car is using R134a. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. Put a relay on the compressor clutch to the aux fan (I like that idea - makes a lot of sense)How does that sound? One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. Before we mentioned that you can add approximately 5-6 ounces of ester oil to the compressor. Is it exponential, squared? Then I'll put the ball valve in on the coolant and test it and see what we have. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Discussion in 'Technical' started by Jsarnold, May 25, 2012. #4. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. Instead, top off R12 with R134a refrigerant. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. But R22 is almost equally damaging. In short, NO! I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! Bookmarks: Digg; del . You can spend long evenings reading about the differences between the two refrigerants. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. Paul:A 1983 240D should have a York compressor on an OEM system. Also, if you want to know what happens if you put R134a in an R12 system, you should first confirm if the R12 system can be replaced or if the refrigerants can be mixed. by | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests | Jun 21, 2022 | what is the most accurate latin translator | burlington iowa arrests R404a is a zeotropic blend with a temp glide , because of the mixture of 2 or more refrigerants. Please enter a valid email address for yourself. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . Stopleak is also risky. R-12 - yellow R-134a - light blue R-22 - green R-402A - light brown (sand) R-402B - olive R-404A - orange R-407C - medium brown R-410A - rose R-507 - teal J Originally Posted by goldNSX. You can use the R134a retrofit capacity chart for this purpose. ~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446. Look deep into the fins. Hence, let us continue to fix it. I have some experience with auto a/c but not too much. I'm having the same concern. In no particular order, here's what I've found out regarding answering the questions posed so far:Fonebone - It is definitely an R4 compressor (they left the c off the front and the p off the end, i.e. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. The crossover point is approximately at 64F. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. It cycles on off in med (or low for that matter)Gotta tell ya. What was the ambient when you took that reading?Jumpering the aux fan is a common thing here in the desert. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a, Bohica, You say the drop in performance is not linear with too much oil. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. 2) Frost on the Vents. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." Look at where the lines will end up. The cable is adjustable at the valve arm. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. Thanks for the input. As noted, measure up front as best as you can to get as close to the aftermarket dim. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. Consider using the newer valve, even with 134a stamped on the valve. Before R12 was replaced with R134a in 1995, it was mostly used in trucks and cars. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! R-12 is no longer used or produced in many countries and remaining quantities have skyrocketed in price. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. Rules governing changing from the former to the latter differ between countries. Super heats are so close, it should not be a major concern.-------------------------The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Quick View. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! They might say for instance, add 3-4 oz of oil to the compressor, 1 oz of oil for when you replace a drier, 2 oz oil for the evaporator and so on. Pound for pound R134a is a more efficient refrigerant than R12, however it runs at higher pressures in some aspects and therefore requires more effective condensing. This may be the source of your oil confusion. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. It's helluva humid and hot here in north florida, and I drive around all day for my job. It has already been clearly stated that R12 is a chemical that damages the earths ozone layer and shouldnt be released into the environment no matter the circumstance. Make sure to wear safety gloves, goggles, and shoes when theres a possibility of exposure to the chemical (R134a). And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. The Wikipedia explanation for expansions valves cited in Frank's thread says that the gas inside the bulb in the metering valve is the same as the refrigerant in the system. If your compressor requires replacement or its seals and o-rings need to be replaced due to leakage, it would be wise at this time to either obtain a compressor that has o-rings and seals that are compatible with R134a or have your unit re-manufactured with compatible components. Is there a difference between a R134a expansion valve and an R12 TXV? Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. The system has been previously converted to R-134a. When the sensor detects the refrigerant leak the sniffers lights glow and the sniffer makes a noise. Sense ells no existirem. The pressure at low temperatures is nearly the same between 12 and 134a. I would not do a 134a conversion without a PF condensor. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). I have just bought gauges. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. . Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. we convert older systems where i work all the time and they work fine. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . But with an R4, better too much than too little.3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12.4) The airflow across the condensor is crucial to good performance. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage.