p 51 mustang vs messerschmitt me 262
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Messerschmitt Me 262 Messerschmitt Me 262 A-1a Wehrmacht Luftwaffe (German Air Force 1935-1945) 111711 (Hans Fay) May 1945 World War 2 - Frankfurt Silver. which collapsed under the P-51s machine gun fire, but it may have been Hollywooooood! the Tuskegee Airmen flew their longest mission of the war, it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure, in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, all mingled together on the factory floor, History of Army Corps of Engineers Projects: Missile and Space Programs to the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, How 80 Coast Guardsmen Saved an Alaskan Town During Spanish Flu Pandemic of 1919, 100th Anniversary of the American Aircraft Carrier, Digital Magazine, Command Failure: Lloyd Fredendall and the Battle of Kasserine Pass, Tactical Napping and Other Tips to Sleep Well On Deployment, Warrior Transition Units Become Soldier Recovery Units, SB-1 Defiant Expands Flight Envelope | Video, Top Military Shots DEC 13, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Oct 18, 2019 | Photo Gallery, National K-9 Veterans Day | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots DEC 5, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Nov 15, 2019 | Photo Gallery, Top Military Shots Oct 24, 2019 | Photo Gallery. He commented that the jet fuel's inflammability "made a kill almost certain when it was in your sights" - he commented that they had to carry a lot of fuel. Also the RAF Thunderbolts never suffered an air to air loss, but fighter oppositoin was limited. My way being that the P-51 is probaly in the top five piston fighter aircraft in history, and yes, that is also an opinion, But the Me 262 is the first, truely sucessful jet ever. Me-262 pilots were supposed to limit themselves to hit-and-run tactics on American bombers, It was slower, less maneuverable from high wing-loading, had aerodynamic quirks, vicious stalling, narrow landing gear, etc. While this versatile aircraft did not turn the tide of war in Germanys favor, its innovative design proved ahead of its time and continues to inspire modern aircraft today. Aerei - Take Off - Messerschmitt ME-262.!!! This forum contains affiliate links to products on Amazon and eBay. survive a jet confrontation but only if strict, disciplined Thunderbolts kept alive rookie US pilots so they could become aces in Mustangs. A P-51 of 359th FG (Lt. Col. Murphy) was barely able to pursue it and hit it from 1,000 yards. Main difference was size: Spitfire small, Mustang large. This is due to the tremendous speed of the enemy aircraft.. Let's find out! The P-51 Mustang or the Me 262 Schwalbe? Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by Sinster, May 7, 2003. I am not sure but I believe the P-51 had a 9:1 kill ratio and if you include ground kills it is 11:1. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. real photo of P-51 with ram-jets (but in 1946 after WWII). They include: The P-51 was designed specifically for long-range escort duty, which made it well-suited for the task. Though if only counting the Me-262 shot down in actual combat then the kill/loss figure rises dramatically. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? However, in 1945, light-weight P-51H Mustangs were ready that could reach 490..500MPH. [ref: North American P-51H Mustang by David McLaren] They came over the top of Joe, and Oberleutnant Bley crashed his aircraft, although he was able to escape. But there's one area where the P-51 shines: range. [ref: P-51 shot down MiG-15 ?? There are pros and cons to both aircraft. With visibility more than 100 kilometers (60 miles) Mutke easily spotted the P-51. If a Me-262 ever slowed down, it became vulnerable, Let's find out! Galland was highly impressed by the aircraft's capabilities and speed and became an advocate or the aircraft's mass production. as within seconds, a P-51 would reach 500+MPH Just one solo German jet attacking, This is not say the Me 262 was invulnerable to enemy fighters: The Me 262 was difficult to counter because its high speed and rate of climb made it hard to intercept. You must log in or register to reply here. To the untrained eye, both the P-51 Mustang and the Me 262 may look like WWII-era fighter planes. The African-American airmen had long ago proven that they could fly and fight, and that they could escort bombers, but the battle in which they bagged three German jets clinched the deal. the second Me 262 when he was about 1,000ft off the ground. Which Allied aircraft scored the most air-to-air kills against the Me 262 in WWII? The Me 262 and P-51 Mustang represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance and combat capability for their respective air forces. 111711, Wright Field (1945) PVT.Snafu. Its legacy lives on through its usage in civilian air races, military operations, and Hollywood films like Red Tails and Pearl Harbor.. Another significant difference is that the P-51 was primarily used as a bomber escort, while the Me 262 was mainly used for air combat. Over Western Europe there wasn't such a discrepancy in pilot training or aircraft performance even at the end of the war. Reich airspace, and back, for well over 1,000 miles. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung [Maintenance] (1944 . Clicking on "Refuse" or the X will refuse all profiling cookies. The P-51 had a well-designed cockpit that was comfortable for the pilot and provided good visibility. Messerschmitt Me 262 (Schwalbe / Sturmvogel) North American P-51 Mustang RoC (ft) 3,937 3,475 ARMAMENT STANDARD: 4 x 30mm MK 108 automatic cannons in nose section. You are using an out of date browser. was contrived by Lucas for drama, but in reality, would've been stupid. Additionally Uffz. Spitfire had same engine, but despite being smaller, was slower than Mustang. I did not see the pilot bail (Drew's assigned airplane was Detroit Miss, a P-51D-10-NA, 44-14164, marked E2 D.) Urban L. Drew joined the U.S. Army Air Corp in 1942 and trained as a P-51 fighter pilot. But sometimes, said 332nd pilot Roscoe Brown, we wondered if we had the support of those behind us. The AAF had plenty of officers like Col. (later, Gen.) William Spike Momyer who wrote that black pilots were inferior, and Maj. Gen. Edwin House, commander of XII Air Support Command Momyers boss who wrote, the Negro type has not the proper reflexes to make a first class fighter pilot. Other leaders expressed this view in a prewar Army report, The Use of Negro Manpower in War often quoted during Black History Month which said that black men are very low on the scale of human evolution.. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed as a multi-role aircraft and could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. Compared with Allied fighters of its day, including the British jet-powered Gloster Meteor, it was much faster and . You might also like. ", [ref: Flying to the Limit by Peter Caygill] the 357th FG and ace Capt Ernest C. Feeb Fiebelkorn of the 20th FG, The P-51 could only achieve speeds of up to 437 miles per hour. They shot down 12 bombers and one fighter for the loss of three Me 262s. he shot down a Soviet MIG jet. The P-47 Thunderbolt? Almost immediately, the pilot bailed out from about 24,500 feet. I saw flames burst from the jet orifices of the enemy aircraft. Not sure about any others, though I would imagine the USAAF and RAF ratios in Europe were somewhat lower. Up to 1,000 lbs (454kg) of bombs, rockets or fuel droptanks. He is the take-off. First proposed to the air ministry in the summer of 1938 as a research aircraft to use the new BMW P 3302 gas turbine engine, Messerschmitt's Project P.1065 was pursued by a design team led by Woldemar Voigt. B-17s didn't have door gunners. v ABSTRACT The purposes of this study were to trace the evolution of the North American P-51 Mustang as an escort fighter in World War Two and to enumerate the reasons why it played . We directly support the repository at WW2.ORG, and several other worthwhile projects that add to the historical record. jets could be somewhat offset by the much tighter turning radius of Only veteran or lucky German pilots could survive in a Me-109. The Me 262 could be used for various tasks such as air combat, ground attack, and even intercepting flying bombs. 1,000ft. Does melting sea ices rises global sea level? 'He Faircount Media Group. OPTIONAL: External Bombload of up to 1,200lbs. 4 x 12.7mm machine guns in wingsP-51D: 6 x .50 cal machine guns in wings. Mustangs encountered and defeated every German aircraft, including the smooth, twin-jet Messerschmitt 262s. Wrote Brown in his after-action report: I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. Seen here minus its Junkers Jumo jet engines and surrounded by it's 30mm Mk 108 cannon shells. The break should start much sooner than is necessary when fighting Me 109s or Fw 190s. The briefer is Lt. (later Col.) Edward Gleed. Approximately 1400 models have been built, Menu. Lockheed's Kelly Johnson certainly was a genius, explosion, and a sheet of red-orange flame shot out over an area of about The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Still, after a war in which critical work was performed by American factory workers who were black and white, male and female, all mingled together on the factory floor, there was no turning back. But there is historical curiosity at stake :-). was forced to abort. Its elliptical wings made Spitfire beautiful and turn more tightly. [ref: Ziegler, McLaren]. Most enemy jet contacts up until October 1944 had been with the rocket-powered Me 163. I confirm that I have read, consent and agree to The Aviation Geek Club Privacy Policy. Just then I saw the canopy go flying off Not really, the P-51D Mustang was certainly a good fighter. As the summer faded away into fall, encounters between Allied fighters and jet jobs slowly increased, but there was something of a cat-and-mouse nature about them. The Messerschmitt Me-262 was the first jet fighter to enter operational service. The Messerschmitt Me 262, nicknamed Schwalbe or swallow, was a force to be reckoned with in the skies during World War II. This was made using. 13:12. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. It only takes a minute to sign up. [ref: Pilot Training Manual for the P-51 Mustang] This title explores the formidable Me 262 and P-51 Mustang, two planes which represented the state-of-the-art in terms of design, performance, and combat capability for their respective air forces.Arguably two of the finest fighters built during the course of World War II, the Me 262 and P-51 Mustang heralded new dawns in aircraft performance. To confront the bombers and fighters, Jagdgeschwader 7 (Fighter Group 7) Nowotny, launched 30 Messerschmitt Me 262s from Brandenburg Briest near Berlin. Amidst the chaos on the runway, (f-106deltadart.com). However, this event was tempered by the loss of three more jets to Mustangs on November 4. As told by Robert Forsyth in his book Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang, since August 1944, the USAAF had been aware that the Luftwaffe had started to deploy the Me 262 in small numbers over the Western Front in both the fighter and bomber roles. In that month, the Messerschmitt Me 262 began to appear in combat. In a February 5 interview, Dr. Roscoe Brown, 91, was remembering a pivotal battle as a P-51 Mustang fighter pilot in World War II. section of the enemy aircraft. and 258th victories, but as he returned home he was apparently intercepted by ", "On November 8, 1950, the then Capt. Fw-190 vs P-51 fw-190-wurger. The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed with jet engines from the beginning, making it faster and more powerful than the P-51. flying 170 missions in a P-51 Mustang, a piston-engine plane in which OPTIONAL: As I glanced back I saw a gigantic As the Wiki article confirms: Allied pilots soon found that the only reliable way to destroy the jets, as with the even faster Me 163B Komet rocket fighters, was to attack them on the ground or during takeoff or landing. In this case, if data were to be transferred to the US, it would not be your personal data but anonymous data that cannot be traced back to you in any way. I would have to say that 3/4's of the jet kills were to P-51 in aerial combat. Only in exceptional cases, the IP address will be sent to Google's servers and shortened within the United States. Other iconic WW2 era fighters such as the Spitfire and the BF-109, were incredibly good at dog-fighting. Today, the P-51 continues to fly in air shows as a symbol of American military prowess and talent in aircraft design. Drew, who had been leading the 375th FS on an escort mission for a box of B-17s on their return from targeting one of the refineries, observed a dogfight taking place below the bombers and, leaving his section, had dropped down with his own flight to investigate. 13:12. out. But when you examine the timing of its creation, it becomes clear that this incredible feat of engineering had a much simpler motivation: fear. Coast Air Museum in Santa Rosa and an old friend of Col. Rogers. US F-51 pilots trained against US jets and mentioned that scoring a hit on a MiG-15 would be very difficult: It just fought differently. It definitely didn't help when at one point, a pilot took four 30mm shells and was still intact after. so Mustang would've been blown to bits! The Me 262, on the other hand, was designed with jet engines from the beginning, making it faster and more powerful than the P-51. In that way the Mustang would have equal OPTIONAL: External Bomb load of up to 1,200lb. Mai 1941 Brown, who lives in Riverdale, N.Y., and holds a doctorate in physiology, joined the Army Air Forces (AAF) in 1943, trained in Alabama, and was sent to the 332nd Fighter Group at Ramitelli, Italy. Me 262 Vs P-51 Mustang is published by Osprey Publishing and is available to order here. U.S. Air Force photo. North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51B Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 336 FS, 4 FG VF*U Missouri Mauler (Capt. [ref: Air Force Airman Winter 2007] All rights reserved. As an Amazon Associate and eBay Partner, we may earn a commission when you click on these links and make a purchase. Leutnant Gerhard Robert, and Oberfahnrich Heinz Russel, continued to taxi out Another time, when on patrol, he shot down several US B-17 Flying Fortress bombers that didn't react to repeated warnings. Rogers achieved a rare MiG-15 jet It also acted as a ground attack bomber, capable of inflicting significant damage on enemy troops and equipment. Lets take a look. Why was the Me 262, one of the first operational jet fighters in history, developed and built? JeuxVideo.com. For a few moments he monitored their progress: The lead ship was in take-off position on Drew flew his P-51 In his interview with Defense Media Network, Brown said, High-altitude escort was probably the most important mission in the war and shortened the war by about six months because it enabled the bombers to go a longer distance into Germany and destroy their infrastructure their rail hubs, oil refineries, and so on., Dr. Roscoe Brown who served in World War II as a Tuskegee Airman and flew 68 combat missions in a P-51 Mustang. Not an academic comparison -- a Mustang and Corsair really were in a dog-fight. Browse more videos. By https://teespring.com/stores/tj3-gaming-merchCheck out my sponsor Tobii Eyetracking here! Both involve healthy jets, and American ace pilots. Brantley outmaneuvered his adversary and poured rounds of fire into the jet fighter that killed its accomplished ace pilot, Oberleutnant (Lt. Col.) Ernst Wrner. The only logical option for the German would be to play to his strengths.climb out at speed and leave the Mustang behind, meaning no victory for either side. P-38 was a quiet comfortable plane to fly, November 1940 . However, as with other turbojet engines at the time, the Me 262's engines did not provide sufficient thrust at low air speeds and throttle response was slow, meaning in certain circumstances such as takeoff and landing, the aircraft became a vulnerable target. The desegregation of the armed forces in 1948 and the civil rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s gave us a new world, Brown said. Spitfire developed into a different airplane (Spiteful), NA P-51 Mustang vs FW 190 Butcherbird Altitude = 25,000 feet61 5.10 Attrition of the Luftwaffe Fighter Force in Early 194463 . At high-altitude, FW-190 became vulnerable as it lost performance and maneuverability. Google uses the Personal Data collected to track and examine the use of this site, compile reports on its activities and share them with other services developed by Google. Where they failed was in designing practical airplanes using available technology and materials. Adolf Galland witnessed events from the ground. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Highest kill ratio ever ? Yeager was one of four double aces, taking down the ME-262 as it landed perhaps not "sporting," he acknowledged, but one sure-fire way to drop the revolutionary jet. We easily out-maneuvered him, and when he dived pass us, I realized the enemy aircraft was jet-propelled. The pilot concluded his account by warning starkly that, Care should be taken when breaking into this type of aircraft. aircraft, which blew up just as it lifted off the ground. It seems to me that many famous fighters of WW2 vintage started in a razorback configuration, i.e p-47,p-51, and supermarine spitfire. highly decorated pilots in the Luftwaffe, finally took off to engage the enemy 1 x cannon in propeller hub A Me-163 pilot descended thru a group of B-17 bombers and picked a straggler. While it had rocket fuel, a Me-163 was untouchable -- but after it burned its rocket-fuel, Me-163 was defenseless. Though they have some similarities, there are also several key differences between these two planes. Siegfried Schubert claimed one B-17 of the 92nd Bomb Group (Lt. Koehler piloting) damaged and another (42-97571 of of the 457th Bomb Group, Lt. Winifred Pugh piloting) destroyed. None of this prevented the 332nd Fighter Group, commanded by Col. Benjamin O. Davis, from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe the German air force in aerial combat. 1:01. and also the world's first mass-produced jet fighter. During the Vietnam war from what I have read the F-4 Phantom II didn't have much of a succesful kill ratio against the more nimble MiG-17's and MiG-21's. The 332nds aircraft had distinctive markings that gave them the name Red Tails. U.S. Air Force photo. Learn how your comment data is processed. For starters, the P-51 was designed and built in America by North American Aviation, while the Me 262 was designed and manufactured in Germany by Messerschmitt. On Internet, a reference to book "P-51 Mustang: From 1940 to 1980" in an Me 262. he took a lucky shot at them.'". [ref: Hitlers Jet Plane by Mano Ziegler] P-51s and other prop fighters could easily outmaneuver Me-262s. And the Me-262 would take advantage on their speed instead. The P-51 and the Me 262 are significant aircraft that played essential roles in WWII. Firstly, it was used as a fighter plane to battle against Allied aircraft. In Air Force's Airman publication, Yingling claims his MiG-15 kill was confirmed, Hope you enjoy! Not which aircraft was the best at shooting them down, which is statistically unprovable, as you rightly caution. P 51 Mustang's guard the bombers, Their crews call 'our little friends'. The Me 262 was the first operational jet fighter in history. Over the German capital, they encountered Me 262s. To complement this, I will focus on contemporaries that saw action during Korea. planes that were apparently destroyed twice. claims P-51s shot down MiG-15s in South Korea, but reverse seems more likely, 3:53. The shortage of drop tanks at Ramitelli forced the maintainers to get creative. Messerschmitt ME 262 - Die Wartung . 1:12. I pulled up at him in a fifteen degree climb and fired three long bursts at him from 2,000 feet at eight oclock to him. had crucial advantages in range, speed, maneuverability. Welcome to the WWII Forums! but North American Aviation's Edgar Schmued from performing well on bomber escort missions and engaging the Luftwaffe. As can be seen in this picture, the razorback eventually gives way to bubbletop. The Tempest was very fast and could almost keep up with the jets on landing. So 158 Me262's were shot down in the air by fighters, and of these between 60 and 74 % were P-51 Mustangs. euronews (en franais) More from MotorTrend. Its higher speed and range resulted from its laminar-flow wings, Google Fonts is a service used to display font styles operated by Google Ireland Limited and serves to integrate such content into its pages. (C) 4 x 20mm Hispano cannons in wings. Nowotny had commenced operational flying four days earlier, although its first MiGs, and they were so much faster. Why were so few Luftwaffe attacks flown against the Normandy beaches on 6 June 1944? 2 x 20mm Cannons (in addition to existing 4 x 30mm cannons) 24 x Air-to-Air Unguided High-Explosive Rockets. WW II has got to be the F6F as has been previously stated. Within seconds, his Me 262 began vibrating violently as the tail was buffeted back and forth. Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder - YouTube 0:00 / 3:55 Messerschmitt Me 262/Bf109 vs P-51 Mustang War Thunder Kimchan7 27.8K subscribers. Red Tails- P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262. But each pilots skill and resolve, On each bomber crew is depending. Red Tails: P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262 Davo De Gondolin 21.5K subscribers Subscribe 81K Share 9.9M views 8 years ago Combate Areo entre los Red Tails y la Luftwaffe Pelicula: Red Tails. Bf-109 vs P-47 bf-109. For this reason, the data transferred to GA will be made anonymous through a proxy system called "My Agile Pixel" which will replace your personal data such as the IP address with anonymous data and therefore not traceable to you. Around 1,200 Me-262's were destroyed, by strafing, bombing etc etc.. Piper PA-48 Enforcer. Though ultimately, it was too little too late, the unmistakable roar of its engines striking fear into Allied troops as they raced through the skies was all the encouragement Nazi leaders needed to push forward with its development and construction. P-51 Mustang vs Messerschmitt Me 262: WE FOUGHT THE ARYAN RACES to the death..WE ARE BRAVE AND STRONG.and if THEY show up . [ref: Caygill]. In some cases both USAAF & RAF claim the same Me262, and in one case it is not clear which type of aircraft the squadron (RAF 403) was using, hence the fractions. Faster light-weight P-51H might have been equal of Me-262 in a straight-line race, The aim was to attack jets on their landing approach, when they were at their most vulnerable, travelling slowly, with flaps down and incapable of rapid acceleration. Size: 1624inch(4060cm) 1218inch(3045cm) 1624inch(4060cm) . Browse more videos. ), This is not an answer but just a repeat of the same point made in the question: ", @PieterGeerkens So, as soon as an OP mentions a possible answer it is off limit to everyone then? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Clostermann. Answer (1 of 17): Some interesting fighters are often overlooked in discussions of three "1st generation" jets: the Me 262 (operational from 1944), F-86 (1949) and MiG-15 (1949). North American P-51 Mustang North American P-51D Mustang US Army Air Forces (1941-1947) 375 FS, 361 FG Yellowjackets E2-D Detroit Miss (Lt. Urban L. "Ben" Drew) 1944 World War 2 - Bottisham
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